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	<title>Comments on: take back the church</title>
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	<description>The Center Place of the Community of Christ Bloggitorium</description>
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		<title>By: bewarethechicken</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bewarethechicken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, I give up.  You say you can&#039;t take leadership rolls and that&#039;s why YA are leaving.  When I ask for examples, you point to your own congregation, which has nothing to do with why YA are leaving, in general, and your congregational experiences certainly don&#039;t conform to official church policy or to, say , my experiences.  

So when I point this out, you say it&#039;s not just your congregation, that its others, moreover, its for other reasons - like social issues.  But in your first comment you said:

&quot;The reason my YA friends are leaving are not because of political issues but because they’re frustrated with the continued limitations faced in our home congregations.&quot;

My congregation doesn&#039;t limit YA.  The church in general doesn&#039;t seem to limit YA (heck I think there is even a young punk who is president of the Chigago Mission Center).  If you are speaking generally, I just want to square up what you&#039;re saying with what I see.  If you are speaking about your particular area/congregation, then I&#039;m happy to discuss that, but when I asked specifically about what your problems were there, when it seems like you are able to participate in most, if not all areas, you get defensive and change you argument.

I&#039;m sorry your experience is not a positive one.  If I could understand your issue, I might be able to help.  But it doesn&#039;t seem like you really understand it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I give up.  You say you can&#8217;t take leadership rolls and that&#8217;s why YA are leaving.  When I ask for examples, you point to your own congregation, which has nothing to do with why YA are leaving, in general, and your congregational experiences certainly don&#8217;t conform to official church policy or to, say , my experiences.  </p>
<p>So when I point this out, you say it&#8217;s not just your congregation, that its others, moreover, its for other reasons &#8211; like social issues.  But in your first comment you said:</p>
<p>&#8220;The reason my YA friends are leaving are not because of political issues but because they’re frustrated with the continued limitations faced in our home congregations.&#8221;</p>
<p>My congregation doesn&#8217;t limit YA.  The church in general doesn&#8217;t seem to limit YA (heck I think there is even a young punk who is president of the Chigago Mission Center).  If you are speaking generally, I just want to square up what you&#8217;re saying with what I see.  If you are speaking about your particular area/congregation, then I&#8217;m happy to discuss that, but when I asked specifically about what your problems were there, when it seems like you are able to participate in most, if not all areas, you get defensive and change you argument.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry your experience is not a positive one.  If I could understand your issue, I might be able to help.  But it doesn&#8217;t seem like you really understand it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ladymusic</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladymusic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I give up, BTC.  Did you miss where I said it wasn&#039;t just here, just me?  And I didn&#039;t even say it was the only problem.  I think the issue of sexual identity is a far more heated and painful topic at this point.

I&#039;m working on the problem, be sure of that.  I&#039;m driving a long, long way to visit Margie.  I&#039;m speaking out.  I&#039;m doing what I can.  There are still roadblocks and frustrations along the way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I give up, BTC.  Did you miss where I said it wasn&#8217;t just here, just me?  And I didn&#8217;t even say it was the only problem.  I think the issue of sexual identity is a far more heated and painful topic at this point.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m working on the problem, be sure of that.  I&#8217;m driving a long, long way to visit Margie.  I&#8217;m speaking out.  I&#8217;m doing what I can.  There are still roadblocks and frustrations along the way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug Gregory</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug Gregory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[cool...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cool&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bewarethechicken</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bewarethechicken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not telling you there is no problem.  Just trying to understand what the problem is.  If the problem is within your particular congregation, then all you can do is work to change it.  But to conflate local problems to world-wide church problems driving away YA in general, seems to be a gross generality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not telling you there is no problem.  Just trying to understand what the problem is.  If the problem is within your particular congregation, then all you can do is work to change it.  But to conflate local problems to world-wide church problems driving away YA in general, seems to be a gross generality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margie Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you need my e-mail address I can send it to you. Also, I will need your name and the name of your friends. We have much to discuss. I hope it can work out for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you need my e-mail address I can send it to you. Also, I will need your name and the name of your friends. We have much to discuss. I hope it can work out for you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ladymusic</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladymusic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That may actually be workable!  And the friend that I mentioned to BTC isn&#039;t too far away from you, actually.
I found a way to contact you.  Thanks so much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That may actually be workable!  And the friend that I mentioned to BTC isn&#8217;t too far away from you, actually.<br />
I found a way to contact you.  Thanks so much.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margie Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In fact, if you and your friends would like to plan the service...we&#039;d love that too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, if you and your friends would like to plan the service&#8230;we&#8217;d love that too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Margie Miller</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Margie Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you want to drive three and a half hours to Coffeyville, Kansas, we could schedule you on September 27th. Bring a carload of your friends if you want to. After the services we will plan to have a cookout.

We&#039;d be delighted to hear your sermon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to drive three and a half hours to Coffeyville, Kansas, we could schedule you on September 27th. Bring a carload of your friends if you want to. After the services we will plan to have a cookout.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d be delighted to hear your sermon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ladymusic</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladymusic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTC, it&#039;s because I&#039;m being told there is no problem.  THAT is the problem!

Truly.  My largest complaint locally is that I want something more, something deeper in church.  But it&#039;s a pattern I&#039;ve seen in so many places.  And I hear my friends despairing of the same concerns.

One in particular planned a service that was too offensive, (it was not, not at all) and was refused the chance to share it.

So it&#039;s not the title, it&#039;s not the role, but the willingness of the congregation to accept service.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTC, it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m being told there is no problem.  THAT is the problem!</p>
<p>Truly.  My largest complaint locally is that I want something more, something deeper in church.  But it&#8217;s a pattern I&#8217;ve seen in so many places.  And I hear my friends despairing of the same concerns.</p>
<p>One in particular planned a service that was too offensive, (it was not, not at all) and was refused the chance to share it.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s not the title, it&#8217;s not the role, but the willingness of the congregation to accept service.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ladymusic</title>
		<link>http://saintsherald.com/2009/06/04/take-back-the-church/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ladymusic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saintsherald.com/?p=152#comment-391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Margie, I think that&#039;s my point exactly.  The church is dying, and there&#039;s nobody to step into the leadership.  Your YA group may be too busy, but that&#039;s not the case everywhere, for everyone.  

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the case in your congregation (whew, their schedules make me tired!), but so often the young adults are written off, because they&#039;re not attending often enough, and very few people think that it&#039;s possible to get them to attend.  Frankly, that attitude drives YA away farther.  In fact, it was youth rather than YA, but a church leader said a few years ago that there were &quot;no youth in the church.&quot;  With about 12 of them sitting close enough to kick him.  They should have, too.  ;)

Who would want to invest time into a church that isn&#039;t even thankful they&#039;re in attendance?

If we are to have more money, we need more givers, not more from those already giving.  So, let&#039;s be a vibrant ministry.  I honestly believe that people can&#039;t help but be drawn by the Light of Christ, if we&#039;re sharing it.  I&#039;ve seen it happening in congregations that have been able to do this.  There&#039;s no missionary work, just the Light drawing them in.

I hoep it&#039;s clear that I have a testimony and ministry to share.  It has been quite simply refused by those who hear it.  At some point, I will have to choose to go elsewhere.  I cannot be silent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margie, I think that&#8217;s my point exactly.  The church is dying, and there&#8217;s nobody to step into the leadership.  Your YA group may be too busy, but that&#8217;s not the case everywhere, for everyone.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the case in your congregation (whew, their schedules make me tired!), but so often the young adults are written off, because they&#8217;re not attending often enough, and very few people think that it&#8217;s possible to get them to attend.  Frankly, that attitude drives YA away farther.  In fact, it was youth rather than YA, but a church leader said a few years ago that there were &#8220;no youth in the church.&#8221;  With about 12 of them sitting close enough to kick him.  They should have, too.  <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Who would want to invest time into a church that isn&#8217;t even thankful they&#8217;re in attendance?</p>
<p>If we are to have more money, we need more givers, not more from those already giving.  So, let&#8217;s be a vibrant ministry.  I honestly believe that people can&#8217;t help but be drawn by the Light of Christ, if we&#8217;re sharing it.  I&#8217;ve seen it happening in congregations that have been able to do this.  There&#8217;s no missionary work, just the Light drawing them in.</p>
<p>I hoep it&#8217;s clear that I have a testimony and ministry to share.  It has been quite simply refused by those who hear it.  At some point, I will have to choose to go elsewhere.  I cannot be silent.</p>
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