He contacted me when he returned and told me it had been a very interesting read and given him a lot to think about.

It wasn’t long before the name change occurred. I have no idea if the book had anything to do with it or not, but I thought it was a strange coincidence.

I’m with you, Margie.

How this all works and exists seems to be beyond anyone’s ability to comprehend, let alone describe, but I look at it perhaps a bit differently.

If God is eternal, which I think we can all agree on, and if we are made in God’s image (which I take to be spiritually), then it would seem to be a reasonable conclusion that our spirit is also eternal. While Jesus talked about salvation, and he spoke at great length about being in right relationship(s), I do believe (as I have been so kindly corrected on) that his emphasis was on kingdom-building. One requires the other, does it not?

Jesus taught us to build up our treasure where it will not perish, and I think this helps create an understanding that our eternal life is something of a continuation of who we were while here. That calls us to “celestial” living here, not just to hope in celestial glory later. So, getting back to your point – Margie – what we do here and who we become matters greatly, both for our time here and for whatever existence God has planned for us in His eternal realm.

So much for that deathbed conversion/confession I was planning on! Drat…

We need to be deeply involved in our communities as a force for doing the right thing if we hope to experience salvation. Salvation is all about our world and not a selfish concern about whether or not “we” are saved. That was the emphasis Jesus taught.

First, I wanted to say how much I appreciate your interest in what CofC believes. I haven’t read enough of your posts to be clear on what you think about the questions that you’ve raised, but I would be interested in knowing not only what you believe but why you believe what you believe. Doesn’t have to be too personal, just what you are comfortable with sharing, if at all. I see that FireTag and Doug responded with what the “average” beliefs might be of church members, and Margie and Chicken have shared their personal beliefs. There is a lot of diversity within the Community of Christ. One of the things about the church that is interesting is that while the church itself upholds the principles in the We Share document currently, there has been a lot of change regarding identify, principles, and practices. Also, members are encouraged to figure out for themselves their relationship with God–but not to do so in isolation but as part of a larger community, including community with others of our faith tradition. In that respect, there is a lot of freedom. There are people who have very liberal, almost secular theologies, like Margie has articulated. Then there are people who have very conservative theologies. Then there are people throughout that spectrum as well as on different spectra. The emphasis seems to be on building the kingdom of God and on sharing Christ’s peace here and now, rather than getting everyone to agree to the same beliefs and ideals.

As I began to mention when I asked you about your beliefs and why you believe the way that you do, I am really interested in why people believe what they believe. I remember studying the Wesley quadralateral, which basically says that people form their beliefs based on one or a combination of the following factors: (a) scripture, (b) tradition, (c) reason, and (d) experience.
I think it is fair to say that people use all of these, but place more or less emphasis on each, and may even vary the emphasis according to the issue at hand.

So, if I’m looking at what the Community of Christ believes, that belief is shaped by the 3 books of scripture, by the history of the church as well as the current focus of the leadership, the logic and reasoning headquarters and membership uses to form and refine beliefs, and the personal and corporate experiences of each. The church seems to be placing less emphasis on the book of mormon and on doctrine and covenant scriptures before the late 150s sections, while placing more emphasis on the bible and the most recent doctrine and covenants. We’re placing less emphasis on historical tradition, except as the enduring principles, and more on the traditions of the multicultural church body, and more on reason and personal experience.

What I hear in your post is your strong belief in the importance of believing in Jesus as savior. I also hear that that is very important for many members, but less important for some members. Differing worldviews…

I also hope that this is a safe forum in which we can share different opinions while still upholding the worth of each. That is a core principle of the CofC.

Oh, I couldn’t agree more, Chick. I think that is definitely taking the wrong path. I am sure those who have a MDV know better. I can’t imagine why they choose to adopt that ancient error for our church and our time.

I only point these out to show the difficulty in discussing these topics without a frame of reference. My disapointment with the current statements on “general beliefs” or “enduring principles” which are trying to convey this definitional framework, adopt millenia old theological stereotypes, from which it is difficult to grow.

We will never be goverened by any creed except perhaps to seek truth and to seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion (the kingdom). I personally believe in the revelation contained in the Book of Mormon, but that belief is not a requirement of membership. It doesn’t matter to me whether Jesus was born of a virgin or not, because that only puts him in the same “claims league” as Alexander the Great, and I am no follower of his.

Jesus’ proclamation (as I have been reminded by my fellow blogpals) was the kingdom of God being at hand more than his own divinity, and I am growing increasingly comfortable with being called back to that focus. The uncomfortable part about that is that participating in the building of the kingdom seems to require more of me than just believing in the divinity of Christ, the one who called us out to become fishers of men for the kingdom’s sake.

A majority of us probably believe something pretty close to that quote, although we might not be rigid in the language we use to describe it, and love people, like Margie and BewaretheChicken who believe very differently than that. Indeed, if you peruse all of the threads on this site, you’ll see the extraordinary range of beliefs held by our membership (and the membership of the church as a whole tends to be more conservative than the membership that posts here).

What is left out of your statement is the emphasis we place on the mercy and grace of God. In our theology, we make a clear distinction between the importance of believing the correct things about Jesus, and having a relationship with Him. In fact, a lot of people have a deep relationship with Jesus even while they deny that they know Him, because they have a passionate belief in justice. (Worked for Peter.)