Comments on: Feast Your Soul on This: Church HQ Officiousness

By: Doug Gregory

Doug Gregory — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:49:37 +0000

Keep singing, brother. I like your tune!

By: Rich Brown

Rich Brown — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:16:27 +0000

Mission centers are, indeed, way too big and unwieldy to accomplish what they were intended to do in the first place. Consider, for example, there are two mission centers in Canada with the dividing line at the Ontario/Manitoba provincial boundary. But even in much smaller geographical areas, such as the Central USA Mission Center where I live, they’re still largely ineffectual except for summer youth camps, reunions, and a limited youth ministry year-round.

I’ve been intrigued by the development of multi-site congregations within North American Protestantism (and, as you might expect, technology plays a central role in making them work). Maybe this would be a way for a few CofC congregations to engage in targeted ministry within a limited geographical area. This would require, among other things, a new approach to organization and leadership (vocational as well as bi-vocational ministry). Funding for such a model would inevitably be a challenge with the current method of MC assessments and World Church mission tithes.

By: Doug Gregory

Doug Gregory — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:34:58 +0000

George Barna’s book Revolution seems pretty strong about the receptivity of a broad part of the population to kind of free-association groups that tie individuals together based on a sense of mission. While we may not be able to pull together mega-churches, I’ll bet sizable congregations based on common missions could be built. (On a side note, the concept of Mission Centers is – at least to what I can see – a complete abuse of the word “mission”. They are nothing more than regions. We desparately need a new model.)

By: FireTag

FireTag — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:00:17 +0000

I pulled down a list of all of the largest mega-churches recently, and found that they were about 80%-@0% conservative to liberal. I’m not sure exactly, what that is telling us, but I don’t think it bodes well as a model for the CofChrist pursuing a radical justice agenda.

I think the point of closer-to-me = more-important-to-me is true, though. Maybe we need a policy of radical decentralization to lower-than-congregational level to be effective across denominational and even religious/secular lines.

By: Margie Miller

Margie Miller — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:18:36 +0000

You know, I think the church with it’s idea of community would do quite well if congregations were independent. If we discarded the Book of Mormon, it would even do much better. Many people are suspicious of the entire Joseph Smith story. I have been president of the Independence (Kansas) Ministerial Association. One of my Methodist friends recently asked me if we still accepted the Book of Mormon as scripture. I told him the truth…that most of our church did but that Bob and I neither one accepted it as scripture. He just shook his head.

By: Doug Gregory

Doug Gregory — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:47:08 +0000

I am quite sure this is not a new thought, but am wondering this morning if part of what CofC is experiencing is that we are caught up in the broader death throes of denominationalism. Is it possible that more people relate with the congregation / branch they attend (no matter what their denomination) than they do with their actual denomination? Would this potentially mean that people relate more to a community then they do with an idea or a calling?

In this time of deconstruction in the western world when the individual seems to matter more than the nation / tribe / group, does the local congregation matter more than the larger body of the church?

I have often wondered what would happen if a group of CofC members took the basic beliefs of the church, sans the BofM (sadly), and put the same kind of effort into building a community-type mega-church that others do, what the response would be. It seems to me that 90% of our message would find quite an audience as an independent and local church if it were organized and led like other community churches are.

By: FireTag

FireTag — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:08:30 +0000

If a prophet is one who spends time with one foot in this world and one in the next, Oakman spent most of his time with his head in the next, and his personal manner in this world could be as abrupt and grating as Margie says. It’s almost as if this world wasn’t as real as the world he saw in his visions and tried to convey in his writings and sermons.

I can see how Margie would be appalled, whereas I was inspired by his works as a boy, and even more grateful to him (though I’m not sure if I ever personally heard him speak) because he took the time to come and seek out the woman I would later marry and give her a personal blessing at a time of great need in her life.

Similarly, I disagree with the efficacy of much of Andrew’s politics, but deeply respect his personal integrity in his advocacy.

Perhaps the lesson here is that we need a greater variety of leaders to minister to a diverse church and world, and that the homoginizing inherent in a church “corporation” narrows the niche of people we can reach,

By: bewarethechicken

bewarethechicken — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:22:16 +0000

I agree that current leadership are excellent teachers and preachers – whether I agree with every part of their particular theology or not. I guess the problem I have, is that leaders need to be more than academics and public speakers. They need to be leaders.

By: Margie Miller

Margie Miller — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:50:14 +0000

I’m sorry to hear that. What has happened to him? he is the same age as my Bob.

By: John Hamer

John Hamer — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:23:59 +0000

I see what you’re saying. Yes, members need to avoid going nuts when leaders say things they disagree with because it only prevents leaders from saying anything at all. In a church without a creed, people believe different particulars. I don’t imagine that Dale or anyone else believes every last thing that I believe, and so it shouldn’t upset me that he might teach things I might take issue with or object to.